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The United States ranked last when compared to six other countries -- Britain, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand, the Commonwealth Fund report found.


http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65M0SU20100623?type=domesticNews&feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews

Date: 2010-06-24 07:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] equinas.livejournal.com
Biased study with a political agenda. Do some background on the Commonwealth Fund.

Date: 2010-06-24 10:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sheppdog.livejournal.com
Well I would believe it. Tho I had a mother that died from cancer that no one would helper with so she recieved horrid service and cheap service. Hope they do fix it.

Date: 2010-06-25 12:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fuenteviva.livejournal.com
I'm a little suspicious of the cost comparison since there are so many factors you'd need to compensate for to compare accurately (age, percent of population treated, range of health and other related services funded by taxes). If you compared healthcare for the richest 10 percent of the population in the US to healthcare in general in those other countries, I think the US would score far higher than all of them. We ration the quantity and quality of healthcare based on money, while those other countries ration it based on need and efficacy.

Our system favors the wealthy and privileged to the extreme detriment of everyone else, to the point that providers can't even be bothered to keep up with basic safety standards for ordinary patients as the study says. They do charge outrageous prices for that substandard service anyway, though, since we have no open competition and no proper price caps.

The fact that people with real money come here from those other countries for healthcare is consistent with all of this, but it says nothing positive about our healthcare system as a whole.

I couldn't afford decent health insurance, so I just let my health problems get worse over time. Since I don't go to the doctor I have no negative health history and I was able to afford decent life insurance, so my loved ones can have something.

I don't see how any healthcare is worse than having no access, unlike all the critics on your link. I guess none of them have ever faced a lack of access. Wow that was long rant.

Date: 2010-06-26 10:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] equinas.livejournal.com
"They" charge outrageous prices because "they" have to pay $100k-$250k for malpractice insurance every year. If you have a problem with the cost of health care, blame malpractice insurance companies and lawyers, not doctors.
Edited Date: 2010-06-26 10:47 am (UTC)

Date: 2010-06-26 07:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fuenteviva.livejournal.com
I don't see anyone offering a discount if I agree to sign a waiver, and I was talking about the entire industry: technicians, nurses, clinics, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, oh and doctors. They are all too eager to pass on any cost, like malpractice insurance, and pad it with a little something extra to increase profits. Since they have so much wealth, education, and influence, maybe they should try helping to reform that system instead of passing along the extortion to their patients.

Oh boo hoo, poor doctor only cleared low $200k's this year? That malpractice insurance is making him buy only one new car a year, and he can't even add another new wing to the house! I'll gladly agree not to file frivilous lawsuits if the doctor will agree to stop price gouging me and making this lame-ass pass-the-buck argument, but he will never make me that offer, will he?

Date: 2010-06-27 01:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] equinas.livejournal.com
That doctor most like went $200k in debt and will spend the first 10 years of his career paying off his student loans.

You don't know what you're talking about, and you sound like a Socialist who just wants a handout. Doctors spend hundreds of thousands for their education, work their asses off for 8 years of school, get treated like shit working 100 hour weeks for the next 3-7 years of residency, so YES, at the end of all that they're entitled to make good money.

People like you who bitch and whine that doctors make too much have no respect or appreciation for what they go through to earn the "privilege" of being able to save your life.

Date: 2010-06-27 07:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fuenteviva.livejournal.com
I don't think it's my fault that a doctor overpaid for his education and wasn't good enough to get any grants or scholarships.

I did work my ass off for 6 years of school and get treated like shit working 100 hour weeks for 4 years, but for some reason that didn't entitle me to make vast amounts of money. I guess it's easier to price gouge when your customers have to pay or die. That or, you're being the Socialist who feels that anybody who completes 8 years of school must be handed a high-paying job.

Oh, since I was actually far more intelligent than the average doctor, I was able to earn large academic scholarships and a research position that paid for all of my many years of education by the time I graduated (living at home with extended family kept costs down too). Many grad students don't pay for education, but I guess most doctors aren't that smart.

No, I'm not falling over myself with respect for the mighty doctor who might deign to save my life if he's having a good day and I can pay him a fortune.

I'm not asking for a handout, and I'm not giving any special respect to anyone who isn't any better than myself. I would however, like to repeat my constructive criticism that healthcare workers should organize and help us to reform the tort system and insurance structure that you say is at the root of a large part of the financial excess. Do you have anything constructive to say?

Date: 2010-08-02 02:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dog0fwar.livejournal.com
The people at the top are trying to set the poor against the middle class to distract them from the real issues. Do not let yourself be fooled.

Look at the electronics industry vs. the medical industry. Which is more regulated by law?

i.e. if all Americans were guaranteed a free mandatory television once every 5 years, what repercussions might that have? Familiarize yourself with the works of Bastiat and question the consequences that are not immediately seen.

Date: 2010-08-02 02:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dog0fwar.livejournal.com
Tort reform was an essential element, yet it was left out of the health care bill.

This is on purpose because the medical-industrial complex is in collusion with politicians in order simultaneously placate and fuck over the lower classes of America. We will never get real change until Washington is burnt to the ground.

Date: 2010-08-02 08:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fuenteviva.livejournal.com
I have seen a large portion of the middle class, including myself, slowly ground down closer to poverty over the last 30 years. Rapidly multiplying healthcare costs have contributed to that process indirectly by making employment far more expensive, and directly through 'medical bankruptcy'. Doctors may be able to afford the price of their own healthcare for now, but if it continues rising they'll be screwed too.

I realize that there are substantial mechaninations at work from people higher up in the economic food chain, but that doesn't excuse complacency by healthcare practicioners; and said complacency is ultimately self-destructive.

The prevailing notion that no price is too high to pay for becoming a doctor, because it is a guaranteed wealth machine, inflates the cost of training and suggests to me an economic dysfunction or acute imbalance not unlike our recent real estate bubble.

I don't want to fight a class war, but I would like to see more self-interested enlightenment and forward thinking. There's no future for our nation in a healthcare system that becomes several times less efficient than its competitors; and being complacent and passing the blame around isn't going to improve the outlook.

Real, transparent market competition might help to control costs, so could socialist mandated price reductions. Tort reform would certainly be encouraged in either case. I haven't seen any constructive attempts to control healthcare costs from anyone with the resources to attempt it, which leaves me extremely frustrated.

Date: 2010-08-02 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dog0fwar.livejournal.com
I have seen a large portion of the middle class, including myself, slowly ground down closer to poverty over the last 30 years. Rapidly multiplying healthcare costs have contributed to that process indirectly by making employment far more expensive, and directly through 'medical bankruptcy'. Doctors may be able to afford the price of their own healthcare for now, but if it continues rising they'll be screwed too.


yes, I agree with this, but you have to look at WHY THIS IS THE CASE.

Simply accepting there is a problem without looking at the WHY of the problem gets you nowhere.

This is not complacency, trust me. The people in charge are fully aware of how much they are gleefully fucking you and I over. It is class warfare, but not rich vs poor in as much as the political class vs the rest of us.

Just look at the clinton wedding! Two million dollars of the cost of that wedding came from tax payers who are being crushed with a slow grinding descent into poverty.

The reasons behind high cost of entry into the medical profession is the medical-industrial complex requires all practicioners to be vetted by the powers that be. Pills are the solution, inexpensive options are garbage, yadda yadda ad nauseam ad infinitum.

Date: 2010-08-02 02:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dog0fwar.livejournal.com
the logic beneath healthcare reform:

there is a problem therefore we must do something

for example:

There is dirt on the surface of my body so I should douse myself in acid until I am clean


That is to say, just because a problem exists does not justify any and every course of action. The response should be critically examined and not simply accepted with nonchalance.

Date: 2010-08-03 01:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fuenteviva.livejournal.com
Yes, that sounds like the logic behind the most recent healthcare reform. That and "if we do something at the start of an election season we can get more votes".

But doing nothing for years at a time sounds like analysis paralysis to me. In software we learned a long time ago that it's often better to try something, review the results, and make a revised attempt than to attempt to formulate a perfect solution.

The psychology of power and politics confounds my engineering mindset.

Date: 2010-08-03 01:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dog0fwar.livejournal.com
computer engineering?

I am electrical engineering it is nice to give you power lol :3
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